Inside the Legal World with V.R. Shankar

The legal profession is one of constant learning, a marathon where experience, trust, and business acumen are paramount. In this episode of "The Counsel's Code," we sit down with V.R. Shankar, a legal titan whose 35-year career has spanned some of India's most complex and foundational industries.

Meet the Speaker: V.R. Shankar

V.R. Shankar is the President and General Counsel for Hindalco, a global leader in the aluminium and copper industry. His distinguished 35-year career began at Maruti Udyog Limited and includes pivotal leadership roles at fmcg giant Marico and as Chief Legal Counsel for PepsiCo.

This extensive journey has given Mr. Shankar deep expertise across diverse sectors—from automotive and food & beverage to his current role in metals and mining. His specialties include corporate law, M&A, cross-border transactions, IP management, and litigation.

Key Insights from the Conversation

How did you get into the field of law? What drives your passion and motivates you?

For Mr. Shankar, the decision was simple: "I always wanted to be a lawyer." His passion has been fueled by a career of constant learning. He finds his journey "exciting" because it has taken him from automotive to fmcg, and now to metals and mining.

Each industry presented unique challenges. The food industry, for example, is "very highly closely regulated" because its products are "ingested by consumers," placing a massive responsibility on the legal function to ensure quality and governance. He sees his current role in metals and mining as a continuation of this "learning experience."

How do you approach the first 90 days as a counsel in an organization?

Mr. Shankar has a refreshing perspective: "Every day even today looks like the first day." He believes complacency "is the biggest enemy" for a lawyer in a "rapidly changing" field.

However, if he must define the "first 90 days," his answer is singular: "Spend the 90 days knowing the business." He stresses that without understanding how the business works, what its challenges are, and what laws it attracts, a lawyer "will not be giving advice which will be any relevant." Knowing the business is "table stakes" and "extremely critical."

How do you manage a large in-house counsel team?

"I don't think you need to manage a team," Mr. Shankar states. His philosophy is built on culture, trust, and respect. He sees his team of 31 lawyers not as juniors or seniors, but as "lawyers first." He notes that younger lawyers, with their modern education and extensive internships, "are a lot more exposed to the real world" and bring immense value.

His approach is to "build a relationship of trust" where team members feel empowered to "spread their wings" and even contradict him without fear. "You work with them," he concludes, "you don't need to manage anything."

How do you ensure effective cross-department coordination?

Mr. Shankar believes a legal function must be "part of the fabric of the organization." The old model of waiting for problems to arrive is obsolete. "You will be isolated," he warns. "You have to be proactive."

To "earn a seat on the table," a lawyer must "know the business completely." You must understand its challenges, "how the company makes money," and its macro and micro issues. Only then "can you add your expertise as a lawyer to find solutions." This proactive, business-first approach is what earns respect and eliminates the old stereotype of lawyers as "trouble."

What are your views on external counsel?

External lawyers play a "very critical role." Mr. Shankar's philosophy is to build a "strong in-house team" that works "day in day out with the business" to anticipate and mitigate risks, with a goal of avoiding commercial litigation entirely.

However, external lawyers are essential for two reasons:

1. Specialized Expertise: They have "developed expertise over the years" in specific subjects that an in-house team may not possess.

2. Court Appearances: In a litigation scenario, "we cannot appear in court and argue ourselves."

The in-house lawyer's job is to "avoid litigation," while the external counsel is a key partner when specialized expertise or litigation is unavoidable.

How can lawyers leverage technology as a valuable asset?

Technology's role is "humongous." Mr. Shankar notes that "the younger generation is already interested in technology" and uses it "a lot better than I can." He has seen the evolution from basic digitization to sophisticated tools that provide analytics, data crawling, and real-time alerts on new court filings.

He believes the legal field is "still very nent" in its tech adoption and that "great things are happening" that will continue to enable lawyers.

What are your views on AI? Is it going to replace lawyers?

"Lawyers will never lose their jobs because of an AI," Mr. Shankar states definitively. He sees AI as "complimentary." An AI can provide a "quick summary" of a 400-page petition, but "you still need somebody to read the 400 pages" and analyze it "in the context of what you want to make out of the reading."

The tool "is simplifying or minimizing your effort," not replacing your skill. "You need a human being called lawyer to be able to add value to the tool." He warns that lawyers who "don't reinvent" themselves might be at risk, but those who keep learning will only be enabled by AI.

How does a contract management tool support legal teams?

A Contract Lifecycle Management (CLM) tool is essential for large, geographically widespread organizations. Its primary benefits are:

1. Creating "One Source of Truth": It provides consistency for a large team operating in multiple locations.

2. Enabling Collaboration: It allows stakeholders across the globe to collaborate seamlessly.

3. User-Friendly Adoption: It's "not complicated." By making it easy to use, "they will adopt" it.

He also notes that the ability to use these tools on "handheld devices" makes adoption even easier and more convenient.

What’s your take on litigation management tools? Are they helpful?

"You should absolutely use it." Mr. Shankar sees litigation tools as a "huge enabler" and a "boon." He highlights their ability to act as a central "repository," manage hearing dates, and handle billing and cost management all in one place.

He uses a tool where his external law firms have access, allowing them to "transact within the tool itself" instead of relying on "voluminous records over email." While the "heart of the litigation is still leg boots on the ground," the tool "has really taken away a lot of effort" in managing the data.

How do you ensure a healthy work-life balance?

Mr. Shankar calls the phrase "work-life balance" a "cliche" and offers a simpler path: "If you enjoy what you do, you don't have to debate about work-life balance." He explains, "If I'm really enjoying what I'm doing, then I'm not counting the hours I'm putting into it... I just love what I do."

What’s your success mantra?

"Hard work. There is no other success mantra." Mr. Shankar is direct: in a profession where regulations and case law are "extremely fluid," you must work hard just to "stay abreast."

He warns young lawyers against "too much of technology dependence" and the "shortcut" mentality of news apps. "This is a hard yard," he says. "Success will come to you... but you will have to be willing to dig it out and stay there." He emphasizes that being a lawyer is a "lifelong learning job," and passion is the key to enduring the hard work.

About "The Counsel's Code" Podcast

"The Counsel's Code" is your go-to podcast for exclusive interviews with top legal executives. Discover the strategies they've employed to cultivate their careers, excel in their positions, and emerge as true leaders in their organizations.

Throughout our discussions, we delve into the challenges of leadership and how these accomplished professionals manage the pressures that come with it. Our mission is to provide valuable insights and support for in-house counsel, fostering mutual growth and development.

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Disclaimer: The views expressed in this podcast are the speaker’s personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the positions of the podcast, Volody, or any current or former employers.